Out of interest, what does it mean to you for the kingdom to defeat the world? As in, are you a postmill or optimistic amill who expects or hopes for some kind of 'Christian society' (politically, culturally) to become the norm nationally or globally? Or, with premills and pessimistic amills, do you expect the church-kingdom to always be a beleaguered minority in this age, with total victory only arriving at the eschaton?
I don't actually claim a specific view of the millennium. However, I would reject any view that looks like N. T. Wright's positivism as unbiblical. I do see that, even if the world were to become the visible church itself, it would be an apostate movement for the most part. The condition of the world when Christ returns, in many texts that discuss it, seems to be one where the world has grown worse in its depravity and an massive apostasy in the church has taken place.
So the poem is more suggesting that the kingdom doesn't normally defeat the world in large swoops, like the conversion of thousands or the return of wayward Christians in the thousands upon their being rebuked, but rather a few here and few there, in little churches, in quiet places that often go unnoticed by the world.
Wright is a partial preterist who interprets the catastrophic texts like 2 Thes 1, 2 Peter 3, the various depictions in Revelation, etc. to be referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the end of this present system. As a postmil, he thinks the world will gradually become Christian in a positive sense, and that’s how the world will become the new creation. I think he argues this in his book Surprised by Hope, and probably elsewhere. I don’t take any of those passages as referring to AD 70 so I don’t find his argument convincing, even though I would agree with a lot of other points he makes about eschatology.
Out of interest, what does it mean to you for the kingdom to defeat the world? As in, are you a postmill or optimistic amill who expects or hopes for some kind of 'Christian society' (politically, culturally) to become the norm nationally or globally? Or, with premills and pessimistic amills, do you expect the church-kingdom to always be a beleaguered minority in this age, with total victory only arriving at the eschaton?
ReplyDeleteI don't actually claim a specific view of the millennium. However, I would reject any view that looks like N. T. Wright's positivism as unbiblical. I do see that, even if the world were to become the visible church itself, it would be an apostate movement for the most part. The condition of the world when Christ returns, in many texts that discuss it, seems to be one where the world has grown worse in its depravity and an massive apostasy in the church has taken place.
ReplyDeleteSo the poem is more suggesting that the kingdom doesn't normally defeat the world in large swoops, like the conversion of thousands or the return of wayward Christians in the thousands upon their being rebuked, but rather a few here and few there, in little churches, in quiet places that often go unnoticed by the world.
ReplyDeleteI can only say Amen to all of that.
DeleteWhat do you mean by Wright's positivism?
Wright is a partial preterist who interprets the catastrophic texts like 2 Thes 1, 2 Peter 3, the various depictions in Revelation, etc. to be referring to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the end of this present system. As a postmil, he thinks the world will gradually become Christian in a positive sense, and that’s how the world will become the new creation. I think he argues this in his book Surprised by Hope, and probably elsewhere. I don’t take any of those passages as referring to AD 70 so I don’t find his argument convincing, even though I would agree with a lot of other points he makes about eschatology.
ReplyDeleteI thought you might mean that. Agreed.
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